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25 Aug 2014 13:17:29
Michael Dawson going to Hull. Another potential target slips through our fingers

Shaggy11

{Ed024's Note - We need another CB, but not one who is almost 31. We already have the oldest CB pairing in the EPL.}


1.) Dawson is much better than we have and for the very reason you say we shouldn't want him (hes 31) we should because he's still 3/4 years younger than our current experienced centre backs who are out of contract at the end of the season. That said i'd prefer to see us pursue Johnny Evan and Micah Richards. On Borini, signing on loan makes a mockery of the club, the lads that sign on for long term deals and the supporter who live and breathe Sunderland. I wouldnyt have a lad playing in my Sunday morning team who wanted to play for someone else. (if there is a reason he's not coming other than wanting to stay at Liverpool I hope its made public after the transfer window. I have nothing against Borini if he believes in his ability and that he can play in the Liverpool side, fair play to him, but we need to move on!!


2.) You have nothing against Borini!! You could have fooled me. Getting him on a season long loan is a cracking deal. He'll be out to prove Liverpool wrong which will be great for us plus it potentially gives us 14m to spend elsewhere. So how is it making a mockery of the club?
Your other point about living and breathing Sunderland may apply to fans but when it comes to players it's £££££ that count and long term or short term if a better deal comes up most of them would be off like a shot

{Ed024's Note - Not sure I totally agree - he's clearly not committed to Sunderland after we've shown huge faith in him by making a massive bid, that's even though he knows he'll only play league cup games for Liverpool. If it takes him a month to make a decision I say Poyet makes the decision for him, and moves on. How many players have we let slip by waiting for Borini ?}


3.) Agreed, we should have moved on from Borini weeks ago. But if we do get him on loan I think he would have something to prove. In fact, I think if LFC sold him mostly against his will he would not play as hard for us, but on loan he still has a chance of working his way back into their team. Just speculation, of course, and my opinion.


 

 

21 Aug 2014 22:10:54
So Liverpool get Balotelli for £16m, and we're after Borini for £14m? If both moves happen they essentially get Balotelli for £2m. Nice of us to subsidise Liverpool's transfer activity. Can't help but think that Borini is a bit overpriced if Liverpool are valuing him at £2m less than Balotelli. Even more worrying is the fact we're willing to pay that overinflated valuation. It's time to pull the plug on this one and move on I think. I liked Borini, and I was happy when our bid was accepted, but the longer it's gone on the more I've realised it's not a good deal for us.

Shaggy11

{Ed024's Note - Poyet is in real danger of losing credibility - has he really but all his attacking eggs in the Borini basket !}


1.) Well I have just heard that Borini is making us wait because he wants Inter Milan to place a bid for him so he can go there, to be honest 14 million for him is way overpriced, surely we can get someone that is worth that much and who actually wants to play for us time is ticking away need to get some business done quickly.


2.) 22 Aug 2014 00:42:21
Poyet's credibility hinges on more than Borini- his transfer strategy was clearly outlined but has not been realised. Most 'key targets' missed. many players that fit the criteria outlined (Caulker, Mutch, Jenkinson, Moses, Bertrand etc) have already moved elsewhere, and we are left as usual scratching around in the bargain basement for last minute signings. The fixation with Borini is reminiscent of the O'Neill pursuit of Fletcher two years back. Of course he eventually got his man, which puts him ahead of Poyet, but we missed out on many players that would have strengthened the team while he fiddled about. Gus, you have a week to restore the faith- if you don't sign two experienced defenders and one regular goalscorer, like O'Neill, this will be your last season in charge.


3.) Not saying that borini is overpriced but when you buy a player the price is dependent on the contract they have left the age and the players past and let's be honest balotelli is a bit of a wild boy. Also when you look how much shane long has gone for to southampton that to me is overpriced. At least with borini we know what we are getting. Correct me if i'm wrong but if you look at the last few strikers sunderland have bought and wasted a lot of money on it amounts to quite a lot. e.g jozy altidore, danny graham, scocco and ji. Not forgetting 8 million we spent on connor wickham for half a dozen good games


4.) I agree that there are lots of factors that influence a player's price, but the main one is quality. Compare Borini and Balotelli. They are the same age. Balotelli is an established first-choice Italian international. Borini has one cap. Balotelli has played consistently, week-in week-out, for some of the biggest clubs in the world. Borini has played more games out on loan than he has for his parent clubs. In fact the most games Borini has ever played for one club was his loan spell with us last year. Balotelli averages a goal every two and a half games, borini averages one in four. And more importantly Balotelli is going to walk straight into a Liverpool team that Borini couldn't get anywhere near. Liverpool are getting an awful lot more for that extra £2m.

Also agree that Shane Long is overpriced too, but Southampton have money to burn from the sales of Lallana, Shaw, etc. so they can afford to pay over the odds. We can't.

Also agree that we've wasted a lot of money on strikers over the years, but that doesn't mean we should keep doing it. Borini is better than all of the players you mentioned, no question, but I just don't think he's worth what Liverpool are asking. We shouldn't be wasting the entire window waiting for Borini when we could use the £14m to buy a few other players. We've already missed out on several targets this summer, how many more are going to go before we do something?


5.) Just been on ssn that balotelli wants 90k a week after tax (180k per week) not many clubs can afford that. but he has promised to be a good boy


 

 

13 Aug 2014 17:32:53
I think we're missing a trick here. Our transfer policy seems a bit random with no real direction.
Borini and Buckley for a combined £16.5 million. For an untried championship player and a Liverpool reserve who clearly doesn't want to come. Don't get me wrong, I like borini, and Buckley may turn out ok, but we can get so much more for £16.5 million that would improve our team much more than these two.
Micah Richards is available, and pellegrini said today that Scott Sinclair was too. £10 million double bid for two players City want rid of? It's a possibility, especially considering Richards only has a year left on his contract. And spurs have said Townsend and Dawson are available too. They want O'Shea, so player plus £6-7 million maybe (they apparently value O'Shea at £3 million according to the papers so that takes it to £10 million in total). That works out at just a bit more than borini and Buckley would cost, but would give us 4 players with premier league experience and more importantly would address our glaring need for central defenders and wingers. Who would you rather have really? Townsend or Buckley? I just can't understand the club's fixation with Borini. We tried, it didn't work out, move on. Please. He's a 10-15 goal a season player, surely between them fletcher, wickham, Johnson, Sinclair, Townsend could get that many

Shaggy11

1.) I totally agree it's frustrating being a Sunderland fan! Richards would be a quality signing and he knows rodwell and Johnson from his city days so bed in well


2.) 13 Aug 2014 23:03:32
I agree that Townsend has many of the qualities we need- especially the pace to unsettle defenders. But I am not sure that both him and Johnson can be accommodated in the same team unless we have a defenders who are less prone to errors and also have more pace, as we would effectively have only six outfield players when not in possession. But I would certainly expect Dawson and Richards to add more to the team than Borini- and they would still be around next year, when our ageing centrebacks will need to be replaced anyway. If we could get either Borini or Townsend, Dawson and Richards for a net outlay of £14m- which would you prefer?


3.) The fees may be the same, but the salaries would be much, much greater. Plus, Poyet puts a lot of value on Borini being familiar with the style and team. Don't get me wrong, I'm quite sick of the Borini "saga". Way past the time to move on, I say. And although it would be nice to turn that into several players, I think that putting £14m towards another striker/winger that would get us more goals than Borini's 10 and actually wants to come here is the better move. Just my opinion, though. Not worth much

P. S. I'm actually quite optimistic about Fletcher, Wickham (if he stays), AJ, and even Altidore pulling their weight this term. Could just be annual pre-season optimism, but I feel things could start to work up front this season.


4.) 14 Aug 2014 02:03:29
I agree with a lot said here but we all seem to be forgetting one thing. Daniel Levy.

Look at what we had to go through with him to sign Darren Bent and how much that "spurs reserve" wound up costing us. I highly doubt he would let 2 players who had moderately good seasons last year leave for the £9m we would be left with should we sign Richards which I've already said should be our top priority.

They would both likely cost around £7m, probably even more for Townsend because of how overpriced attacking players are.

As for Scott Sinclair. I think he is Poyet's last resort should his attempts to sign Borini fail. Don't think Poyet believes Buckley is the solution to the problem. I like Poyet know that Buckley is just solid back up incase players get injured over the season.

All in all I would love to have Townsend and Dawson at the club but would easily cost around £18m not £14m.

But I maintain this. we MUST sign Micah Richards. He ticks so many boxes for us. If we only sign one more player this window it MUST be Richards. we have prem standard cover everywhere but defence and Richards can play anywhere and so provides this.


5.) 14 Aug 2014 02:11:15
Also we still have a fair amount of money to through around. would anyone object to us signing Borini, Dawson and Richards. It would cost around £25m but I think its safer business. I don't think Borini cares if he is on the wing just as long as he plays.


 

 

 

Shaggy11's banter posts with other poster's replies to Shaggy11's banter posts

 

01 Sep 2016 08:35:05
Joke the way this club is being run. Moyes and Short have no clue. First thing that should should have been done when we secured promotion was get Yedlin and M'vila sorted on July 1st when the window opened. Look at the business we did.
Love and McNair for £5m. Or Yedlin for £5m. Already squad is weaker because we've got an on-loan RB now instead of someone we actually own. Marcos Alonso all over again. M'vila for £7m. But £3.5m back for Kaboul, so net spend of £3.5m. Whether the guy had 3 months or 3 years on his contract, you have to balance it out. Was that £3.5m worth spending for the points he could help get us over the next 3 months? Of course it was. Still would have left us £20 million to spend on a new CM, CB, striker, winger. Instead we get second rate Manchester United rejects and two unproven players in Djilobodji and Ndong. It's just stupidity. Always go with the proven players. Our team last year showed mid table form from January onwards. Why mess it up? Because Moyes is stubborn and wants to do it his way (that worked at Man U and sociedad didn't it Dave? ) and short knows nothing about football. Where's all the money we were promised? Newcastle and Villa outspent us! And they're in the championship. Hull outspent us and they're our relegation rivals. The way the club is run is a joke. Same every year. Wait til the last moment, panic buy, loan a few reserves from big teams who will either flop or go back to their parent club if they do well, either way doing nothing to improve our club in the long run. Absolute farce. Well Mr Short, you've done it for the last time. I will always support the Lads, but now it'll be from the pub. I won't be at the SOL or the club shop as long as those two clowns are at my club. They will be getting none of my money for Short to trouser or Moyes to squander (no doubt on Fellaini or some Everton or Man U rejects-Naismith perhaps- on the last day of the January window) .

Shaggy11

1.) 01 Sep 2016 08:50:22
I agree with all you have said. Although I will be going to games this year but if we struggle and get relegated then that is it just had enough of this club? Also was informed that sunderland new Hart was not coming a week ago so what has moyes and the club been doing all week as I understand we did not get a reserve keeper in. This is just very unprofessional how can a professional club let this happen.

Need to keep the faith but it's hard.


2.) 01 Sep 2016 09:50:32
I can't remember a more chaotic shambles of a transfer window than the one we've just seen, as a club we've been linked to pretty much every available half decent player on the market, we even managed to get some of them at the club for talks before they realised they would earn more at Hull, or be better off staying put in the championship, we end up scrabbling around on deadline day like headless chickens trying to pick up any scraps that are left over, welcome to Sunderland David Moyes!


3.) 01 Sep 2016 18:16:44
A shambles is an understament! chops! now we have Borini out for 3 months and only Defoe as a striker whilst most teams have at least 4 top strikers! then we have the Mvilla shambles which could mean Yann not wanting to come in janurary or another team coming in for him ( Wenga at Arsenal is a big admirer) this club is a joke! whether its Moyes not being allowed to sign these players because of Ellis " Poundland " Shorts finiacial meltdown or the manager himself? th supporters deservebetter than this and the sooner Short sell this club to someone who can run it properly on a football basis the better! This could affect team moral at a time when we need the team to pull together!


4.) 01 Sep 2016 19:32:54
The situation is that Short through his own stupidity and the idiots who he has appointed like Byrne and Hutchinson, Bain, we are £138 million in debt.

There is a personal loan to Short £50 million and £80 million debt with a bank.

Short has 3 options,

1. Continue running like a corner shop which will mean relegation and the value of the club drop

2.Increase shareholding and clear the debt and generate money to spend.

3. sell the club which would be my option and become the recluse that Short is in Hawaii and get new owners with ambition

Also we could have signed Ballotelli on a free transfer and he has gone to Nice and is on only £20K per week

Niklas Bendtner is available out of contract and that is who Moyes should sign and we know he is a good player.

Regarding a goalkeeper I would resign Steve Harper as back up to to the young lad.


5.) 01 Sep 2016 20:35:28
If the club is this much in debt 1. why has Moyes come here? 2. where is the massive TV money going? surely if we don't invest and we drop into the championship then our debt will increase? surely investors will look at this club as a good investment, massive support, world wide, which would surely encourage sponsers AND the most important question WHY hasn't Ellis Short come out and explained the financial situation to the supporters who surely have the club at heart and have a right to know! time for a prèss conference ELLIS!


6.) 03 Sep 2016 10:34:31
Hi, Man U fan in peace.
I think you have added a few good players from us, not utd first team quality but good Mid Table PL players given time.
Having watched Moyes I honestly think that your lack of signings is down to the board. Yes he is known as dithering Dave but he is also a meticulous planner and would have had targets lined up.
I think he will work the free agent market for you (Anichibe not headline player but Will be solid addition) . Sounds like survival the target with the aim of selling or new investment.
Not all doom and gloom for you guys hopefully. Fingers crossed Januzai plays well.


 

 

01 Sep 2014 15:59:56
Borini off to QPR for £10m. Takes the ****. So much for wanting to stay an fight for his place at Liverpool. And why were we asked to pay £4m more than QPR? Lost all respect for Liverpool and Borini. Hope QPR get relegated and Liverpool miss out on the Champions League.

Shaggy11

{Ed001's Note - Liverpool wanted him to go, he chose to stay. Now he is being eased out whether he likes it or not.}


1.) 01 Sep 2014 16:16:36
fully agree! he has treated us with no respect what so ever! gutless


2.) So he will go to a second rate London club in a small stadium with an equally small fan base. He will be playing for the most most overated premiership manager I have ever seen and will again feature in a relegation battle. Jog on Fabio hope your lass enjoy's the shopping


3.) The surprise that Gus said we would be getting has to be one very big surprise to usurp this Borini news. Perhaps that surprise is that there's no surprise. We need some CB's and a striker, Fletcher needs to go to the SPL where he'd be a star, we need to sign a high profile striker


4.) I don't understand all of the vitriol towards Borini or Liverpool for that matter. The guy wants to stay and fight for his place in a side challenging for the title and in the Champions League. Is it so wrong to do that than to go to a side that will be in another relegation dogfight?

As time ticks on and Liverpool continue to spend, the club has to offload its deadwood. We have withdrawn our offer so Liverpool are now not in a great bargaining position; they need him out the door. Borini now realises he's not going to be able to stay so he needs to take whatever is available. I suspect if we went back in wih a bid he would prefer us over QPR but that ship has sailed.

No lack of respect, no exploiting us, no taking the p**s, it's just business.

I will be massively ashamed if he gets booed at the SoL later this season if he does end up with QPR. Just remember what he did for us last season and be grateful!


5.) 01 Sep 2014 17:32:09
Liverpool delayed the deal until they signed a replacement. FACT.

Borini then said he wanted to fight for his place. FACT.

Borini kept us hanging for 6 weeks. FACT.

Borini then decides to go to QPR FACT.

THATS WHY PEOPLE ARE ANGRY FACT.


6.) If he wasn't with us last season to achieve what he did he wouldn't be going to anyone today would he. We have every right to vent our views should he return to the SOL


 

 

22 Aug 2014 18:11:33
Just been on Talksport that Manchester United have confirmed Welbeck can leave if he wants to, but they won't sell him to a rival. Since it's unlikely they see us as rivals for the top 4, Sunderland has been mentioned as a possible destination. Just like we have been with every other available player like Richards, Dawson and Sinclair. Here we go again.

Shaggy11

 

 

19 Aug 2014 18:17:51
We're now even money (odds on according to one bookmaker) to sign Scott Sinclair. But then again we were favourites to sign Micah Richards and that didn't last long so who knows what to believe any more.

Shaggy11

 

 

 

Shaggy11's rumour replies

 

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Rafinha Alcantara? Younger brother of Bayern's Thiago? Yeah, why not? Of course he'd be interested in leaving Barcelona to come to Sunderland. More chance of Jack Colback getting in the England squad.

Shaggy11

 

 

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The club put all their eggs in one basket with Borini. If we don't get him then anyone who comes in between now and Monday will be a panic buy.

Shaggy11

{Ed024's Note - I think we need to forget about Borini....if he was coming, he'd be here.}


 

 

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We were odds on for Micah Richards a few weeks ago. At various points over the summer we've also been favourites to get Ashley Williams, Curtis Davies, Steven Caulker, Jordan Mutch and Michael Dawson. Those didn't work out too well. Although to be fair we were odds on to get Rodwell, so I suppose one out of six isn't bad. Hopefully the twelfth player we're linked with will be Lionel Messi.

Shaggy11

 

 

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I'm not doubting your source, it sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing for a club in negotiations to say. Whether or not it's true is another matter. It sounds like very 'creative' accounting on their behalf. If they needed our £14 million to balance their books they would have waited for the Borini deal to go through before spending another £16m on Balotelli. If the Borini deal collapses it would leave them £30m in the hole. Also, they're willing to let Borini go out on loan, which wouldn't bring in anywhere near £14m, so they clearly don't need the money now. Sounds more like they have a player we want so they're playing hard ball. I say call their bluff and either take him on loan or pull out altogether. At least we'll know whether they've been telling the truth or not. Assuming borini doesn't go to Milan in the meantime.

Shaggy11

 

 

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I agree that there are lots of factors that influence a player's price, but the main one is quality. Compare Borini and Balotelli. They are the same age. Balotelli is an established first-choice Italian international. Borini has one cap. Balotelli has played consistently, week-in week-out, for some of the biggest clubs in the world. Borini has played more games out on loan than he has for his parent clubs. In fact the most games Borini has ever played for one club was his loan spell with us last year. Balotelli averages a goal every two and a half games, borini averages one in four. And more importantly Balotelli is going to walk straight into a Liverpool team that Borini couldn't get anywhere near. Liverpool are getting an awful lot more for that extra £2m.

Also agree that Shane Long is overpriced too, but Southampton have money to burn from the sales of Lallana, Shaw, etc. so they can afford to pay over the odds. We can't.

Also agree that we've wasted a lot of money on strikers over the years, but that doesn't mean we should keep doing it. Borini is better than all of the players you mentioned, no question, but I just don't think he's worth what Liverpool are asking. We shouldn't be wasting the entire window waiting for Borini when we could use the £14m to buy a few other players. We've already missed out on several targets this summer, how many more are going to go before we do something?

Shaggy11

 

 

 

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